Wednesday, September 26, 2007

Vote Against Referendum 1, it's full of loopholes

22 comments:

Marshall said...

Wow! Count me impressed and I am impressed by very few political ads, most just annoy me

CR said...

I appreciate the honesty.

leave republican senators alone said...

Republican Senator Larry Craig is not gay. Never has been gay.

republican said...

Republican Senator Larry Craig was just looking for loop-holes.

Paul Mero said...

Rob or Craig...a sincere question.

I saw this ad the other night and paid close attention because a neighbor's little girl can be seen at the back of the class (and, yes, we wanted to give her props!), but my question is...can the PCE folks go into a real public school classroom like this ad and film their commercials?

Is that even legal, or appropriate, for either side to do?

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this. Do you guys?

PTM

republican said...

paul mero:

It's only illegal if your a democrat. Republicans would never use the government credit card to fill their boat up with gas, then be elected Senate Majority Leader in the State of Utah or be gay or break the law.

CraigJ said...

Paul,

Thanks for the sincerity.

Any group could do the same thing Utahns for Public Schools did. They rented the room at the commercial rate. If you're interested in the same thing (but you're not since you're not campaigning :-)), contact the school district of your choice.

Thanks...Craig.

Voice of Utah said...

I sense an impending Sutherland Institute independent analysis about how our LDS forefathers would have disapproved of allowing anti-voucher folks to rent facilities at commercial rates...

wrostow said...

Very nice ad. Staightforward, sincere and to the point. Thank you.

Mother of 3 Bright Kids said...

I am voting for Referendum 1. I am a parent of 3 children. There are several reasons why I think private school would be best for my children. However both my husband and I have chosen professions in Public Service. We love our jobs because we are able to help the community, however as any one in public service knows, it wont make you rich. And sending 3 kids to private school is extremely hard. So as a parent, I vote for the choice to receive some of the tax money that I am paying, and use it for the education I want for my kids. I have looked at altenative schools and applied to many charter schools in my area, and have been put on long waiting lists. I would love the option at least.

Anonymous said...

Maybe some of these bloggers could go to a private school. You're spelling and grammer need some work. Vote no!

Anonymous said...

The only reason I would be hesatant to vote for or against is because I feel like I am not getting all the info. If there are loopholes in this, what are they? That whole ad was propaganda and didn't give and real solid evidence that the vouchers would fail utah's kids.

Randall said...

I personally am voting for Referendum 1. This issue is not about money. It's about POWER, and who has the ability to decide what the majority of kids learn. I believe that parents have the ultimate responsibility and accountability for their child's education. Does it have issues, sure like still taxing the people and giving the government control of your money. But at least it provides an opportunity for parents to take greater control and interest in their kids educational growth.

If you want to learn more about referendum 1, I recommend visiting utahchoice.com to get some more details and greater understanding about vouchers and how they give more power to parents.

Talon ReQuo said...

Ladies and Gentlemen, this ad is nothing but propaganda. Thus far, the people who are telling the public to vote against referendum one because of 'loopholes' have not actually revealed what the loopholes are.
The only truth in this is that the teacher was a teacher of the year.
There will be smaller classes and more resources per student if this gets passed. More money goes to the Public School that a kid comes from than the Private school that he/she goes to- In fact, as it is the districts and schools are losing money because those that can afford it are moving their kids anyway, and those that can't are switching to charter schools or home schools, and that makes the funding stop.
Second, how the money is budgeted and used is up to the districts, not by the senators. Evidence of this was the Jordan District's 300% pay raise to their superintendent and district board. Another is the Alpine districts refusal to sell Lehi High Schools land to the city, when it costs more to maintain the school than to build a new one; in addition, they are trying to expand when there isn't space and they are in a traffic zone. Problem? Yes. Is it the state's fault? No. The districts need to take accountability for their budgets.
Finally, Referendum One will only HELP families. It requires the teachers in the public and private schools to be better, because now those people who's kids need more help or a better environment have a CHOICE in where their kids go. This means that the districts can no longer cater to the Middle of the Road students- they will have to raise all of their students in a better standard or lose the kids that they still have. Plus, if it IS a matter of money, after alot of the kids leave they'll have money oozing out their ears. I don't see a downside yet.
In conclusion, Referendum one is the only solution to solve the problem of mediocrity and below-the-bar standards in Utah. We are now in an age where Knowledge and Life Skills are easier to gain than ever- it's time for us to start taking advantage of it.

david said...

If referendum 1 is full of loopholes, why is it the claims in anti-ref 1 campaigns have been the one news stations have investigated and found to be lies and false claims? And the claims they investigated in pro ref 1 campaigns were found to be true?

Rob said...

David, KSL did a story that did not represent all the facts. I know because the reporter who was responsible for the report has now stated that he did not understand all the facts.

I also need to point out that the same station that brought you that story (KSL) has now written an editorial rejecting vouchers. That is their opinion that Utahns should vote AGAINST Referendum 1.

I received a door hanger from Parents for Choice in Education that has five lies printed on its front. When I have a chance to look at the backside I'm sure I will find more.

The PCE lies are flying fast and furious, and you sir are one of the reasons why they get away with it. Consider water my friend, it's a lot better than Kool-aid.

Rob said...

David, KSL did a story that did not represent all the facts. I know because the reporter who was responsible for the report has now stated that he did not understand all the facts.

I also need to point out that the same station that brought you that story (KSL) has now written an editorial rejecting vouchers. That is their opinion that Utahns should vote AGAINST Referendum 1.

I received a door hanger from Parents for Choice in Education that has five lies printed on its front. When I have a chance to look at the backside I'm sure I will find more.

The PCE lies are flying fast and furious, and you sir are one of the reasons why they get away with it. Consider water my friend, it's a lot better than Kool-aid.

david said...

Excuse me! I come on here and ask two simple questions to try and understand more of the issue at hand and you accuse me, and people like me who want to make sure they examine both sides before deciding blindly, to be the reason people buy into lies. Where did I make any claims against voting against ref 1 in my inquiry? Where did I dispute any of anti-ref 1 claims? The problem is not with people who want to understand the issues, the problem is with people like you who clearly see argument in a statement where there was no argument and want to try to make an example of people you think are against your opinions. I get the feeling you're trying to mask the issue at hand by trying to make an unecessary example out of me. You are clearly argumentative and closed-minded. Do you even understand the issue at hand. Because if you don't, then you should just shut your mouth. It seems to me you just need something to argue against. You can't even understand two simple questions asked by an unbiased voter. How can you possibly understand the deeper issues at hand concerning the vouchers? You're clearly an unreliable source of information on this matter because you can't even tell the difference between a question and a statement. This is a basic understanding in English taught in elementary school. I'm inclined to ask if you were taught in public school to help me see if maybe these vouchers aren't such a bad idea? If you say you were, then you clearly weren't taught well and if you say you weren't, then you're a hypocrite. You, sir, are rude, blind and clearly need education in choosing what is an argument and what is not. And you just made your side of this issue look stupid. The problem lies not with people who study the issues, like me. They lie with people like you who don't know how to say "I don't know." Now is there somebody on here, someone reliable and whose understanding of the issue I can trust, who can answer my questions for me?

MTA said...

from a tax stand point vote for referendom 1 if you want an enormous increase in Utah taxs.
because I don't; and also from a human stand point/prespective why don't you ask your own children what they think of this voucher program; I'll bet you that they won't understand why they're not going to the same schools that there freinds are of your kids going to a private school on the voucher program or not and vice versa; hey if it don't make sense to me it sure won't make sense at all to them.

Student against Referendum 1 said...

I have read the entire house bills 148 and 174. The whole thing. All this bill is doing is raising taxes. The average vouchers they will be giving out re around $2000.I know plenty of people who go to private schools and nowhere do they cost around $4000. So if your family has a low income and cant affordt to pay $7,500 to send your child to a private school then those vouchers will go to waste. vote for referendum one if you want to pay higher taxes to mess with our public school system.

Anonymous said...

I read the House Bill and it says nothing about higher taxes, in fact it specifically says that the district can not acquire extra funds for any lost funds from transferring students; it also says that the private school must employee teachers with bachelors degrees. There are no loopholes; notice how the loopholes are never explained in the cons campaign ads

Raven Mad said...

Bachelor's Degree.. from what university? Provo College? Eaglegate? And in what major? Basket Weaving?
I Graduated from BYU and have a MBA..I don't think I would be a good teacher. The degree should have some relevence to education.

VOUCHERS DO NOT SAVE THE STATE MONEY! Proponents say that the voucher program would save the $29 plus million; but it would cost the state $70 Million. What about after the five years? NO MORE MONEY to the state for the student enrollment; for seven additional years.
My biggest gripe is that it bypasses the Brown V. Board of Education since only the wealthy (most all Caucasions) can affort the additional $5,000 plus in tuition and the poor(Most minorities are in this category) can not afford the additional tuition. Not all families may be eligible for tuition aid.

And how about the issue of prayer in school? How are they protected from religious extremists? Children are compelled to attend school. Schools may be totally independent and the State law does not require any violation reporting process or student advocacy. Additionally, the school may not be subject to some Federal laws if the school has fewer than 20 employees.